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Post by ShoMeTheMoney]>USK<[ on Nov 18, 2008 1:49:32 GMT -5
Supposedly there were things like 1."yes on 8 could cause churches to lose their tax exemptions for not marrying gay couples." 2. "Protect what our children learn in school" 3. "protect marriage" 1. Thats not true. They have a tax exemption? i dunno, but the gov can't force ANYTHING on the church. yes churches have a tax exemption. and they could lose it but it is only if certain things take place. It was an argument with a very slippery slope. Many things have to happen before churches would lose the exemption. And the government can force things on the church, they are the government; now it has to be legal, but they can do it. 2. I go to school, and we talked about all kinds of marriage. Did we actually care or listen? no. I feel like us schoolgoers are being used as scare tactics for something that we may not believe in, it angers me. It sounds kind of like "dont let your children know gay marriage exists, don't give them a choice." Ok, here you can talk about yourself but you cannot say "we." You might not have listened or cared, but there is a reason kids go to school and that is to learn. And parents like to have a say in what in their children are learning. This is the main reasons the supporters of prop 8 used kids and schools to promote the proposition. 3. Protect marriage? Whats to be protected? Obviously you are not religious otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to brush it off. Myself, i am not religious either, but you have to respect another persons views. It is extremely ignorant to brush off something so pivotal is some peoples lives. I also think that even if they are gay, they should be able to practice their religion, and not be kicked or anything because of their marriage. I thought it was supposed to bring people together, not create differences because of marriage status. If a church believes that homosexuals are are sinful humans, why would a gay person want to be affiliated with that church? Now i know it's a little extreme but, thats like saying an african american should join the KKK. I know this is all your opinion, but i hope that you will be able to look at these things from a bigger picture, from another persons point of view. Look at it from all angles and then give us your opinion.
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Post by ShoMeTheMoney]>USK<[ on Nov 18, 2008 2:00:57 GMT -5
If it's part of a religion that homosexuals cannot get married, then they cannot get married in that religion's place of worship I agree, wholeheartedly. If a Protestant couple wanted to be married in a Catholic church, the church has every right to say "no" (and they do). This works for different religious groups i guess, but i remember when gay marriage was first made legal in CA, wedding halls were being sued cause they refused to marry gay couples. Now i have no problem with gays getting married, it in way effects me whether or not they do. But as soon as people are being punished for something that they feel they have a moral right not to do, i have a problem with that. Most gay couples i hope would accept that some places they can't get married, and they will go somewhere it is not a problem. But there are the select few that will have to make a point and start lawsuits left and right. Then you will get the scam artists who go in with their buddy who isn't gay and say they want to get married, when the place says no, they sue for discrimination. This, i think, is unconstitutional. If the courts are going to shoot down the proposition, which i believe they will, i don't think a church or wedding should be sued for standing up for their morals.
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Post by ineedhelp}N{ on Nov 18, 2008 8:23:54 GMT -5
not to bring up sore point but where i am if a protestant couple got married in a catholic church they would be murdered thats how bad it is here
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Post by Tsumetai on Nov 18, 2008 10:02:22 GMT -5
Where are you? Ireland?
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Post by ajb303}N{ on Nov 18, 2008 11:06:44 GMT -5
You know what? I started typing a big reply then realized i was being ignorant. I'm having a hard time with this one, my girlfriend and i just had this conversation the other day haha. I am a christian and i do believe that a marriage should be between a man and woman. But i'm on both sides of the fence right now. Hey, if the two want to get hitched and be miserable the rest of their lives, why not? Haha, little joke. One of my friends is gay, i dont think i could tell him that i didnt believe he should be happy if he fell in love. As far as benifits go, there are plenty of straight people who are trying crazy stuff to get government benifits. Difficult topic
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Post by ineedhelp}N{ on Nov 18, 2008 21:59:52 GMT -5
yes i am indeed Northern Ireland to be exact
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rnz
Junior Member
Dragons rule, Griffons drool
Posts: 88
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Post by rnz on Nov 18, 2008 22:00:22 GMT -5
Shome made a good point. Im not gonna comment on this topic anymore.
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Post by ShoMeTheMoney]>USK<[ on Nov 19, 2008 1:43:47 GMT -5
No rnz, i meant no disrespect, i was just pointing out what the other point of view looks like. Please dude, just rethink your opinion and let us know. There is a reason its opinion, it's neither right nor wrong. If you still feel the same way, so be it. That is your opinion. My intentions were not to disrespect whatsoever.
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Post by «PWC»Jon9908 on Nov 19, 2008 18:41:17 GMT -5
Marriage is a RELIGIOUS ceremony. Period. Personally, I wish the government would stay out of marriage altogether. If they want to recognize (and provide benefits for) Civil Unions, then do so. Let it apply GLOBALLY to all types of couples who wish to fill out the paperwork. Leave marriage to the churches, who are free to recognize or disallow any type of union they want. Don't like it? Join a church that matches your beliefs. That is how it has been forever with regards to any other aspect of religion. (unless you are the King of England in which case you just make your own church) I've seen this argued before and while some may fervently disagree, I believe it boils down to semantics, although that far from a trivial thing. Imagine that the US DOT (http://www.dot.gov/) began to issue Eagle Scout badges as an award for safe driving. How do you think that would make existing eagle scouts that committed the time and effort to earn their badge feel? What if the USDA (http://www.usda.gov/) started handing out Purple Heart medals as an award for farmers? Think that wounded vets (and families) would be mad? You better believe it. That doesn't mean that these government agencies shouldn't recognize those people, it just means that they should stay away from handing out existing titles/awards. ST Just for arguments sake (im not really gay!!!!!) I am atheist and say i was gay there isnt churches for athiests so what now?
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Post by binerexis on Nov 19, 2008 18:46:59 GMT -5
Period. Personally, I wish the government would stay out of marriage altogether. If they want to recognize (and provide benefits for) Civil Unions, then do so. Let it apply GLOBALLY to all types of couples who wish to fill out the paperwork. Leave marriage to the churches, who are free to recognize or disallow any type of union they want. Don't like it? Join a church that matches your beliefs. That is how it has been forever with regards to any other aspect of religion. (unless you are the King of England in which case you just make your own church) I've seen this argued before and while some may fervently disagree, I believe it boils down to semantics, although that far from a trivial thing. Imagine that the US DOT (http://www.dot.gov/) began to issue Eagle Scout badges as an award for safe driving. How do you think that would make existing eagle scouts that committed the time and effort to earn their badge feel? What if the USDA (http://www.usda.gov/) started handing out Purple Heart medals as an award for farmers? Think that wounded vets (and families) would be mad? You better believe it. That doesn't mean that these government agencies shouldn't recognize those people, it just means that they should stay away from handing out existing titles/awards. ST Just for arguments sake (im not really gay!!!!!) I am atheist and say i was gay there isnt churches for athiests so what now? Over here, you'd have to arrange something in one of the official halls and get a civil partnership there. Or lie and go to a CoE church, they allow gay marriages.
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Post by Tsumetai on Nov 19, 2008 19:59:27 GMT -5
Marriage is NOT religious. Period. I'd tell you what I think about religion hijacking marriage and claiming it as their own, but Filak might break his banning finger....
Anyways, Atheists, gay or straight, get married the same way everyone else does, by signing marriage licenses. Many atheists do have ceremonies, they usually take place in marriage halls or something. My mom (who's not an atheist), was married in the back yard of my ex-step-dad's parents house. It was nice too. One of my cousins got married near a river, very scenic view. One of my other cousins didn't even have a ceremony.
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Post by soulkiller288]>USK<[ on Nov 20, 2008 17:57:13 GMT -5
MARRIAGE is what you make of it whether you look it as a religious ceremony or just a regular thing that binds to people together WHATEVER its YOUR opinion no-one elses and besides its not like you can really prove that it falls under any category i just think that people assume that people think marriage is a religious ceremony because of how many people get married in church and when they were little either some form of parent/guardian told them about the perfect wedding and it just so happens that it takes place in a church. well honstly i think its better that its takes place in a church because how would you like it if you were six and you were told that the perfect wedding took place in a court room or a 1-hour drive through marriage building in Vegas?
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Post by Rugal on Nov 20, 2008 21:43:26 GMT -5
Uhhh, can we NOT go back into the whole religious debate again? Heck, why don't we just lock this thread because it seems like it's becoming a time-bomb again.
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Post by utsoldier on Nov 22, 2008 17:01:53 GMT -5
My opinion,
Love is Love, if you love a goat...Cool, if you love a girl, awesome! If you love a dude, great. Your choice.
This thread is not going anywhere : /
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Post by ajb303}N{ on Nov 23, 2008 2:48:17 GMT -5
My opinion, Love is Love, if you love a goat...Cool, if you love a girl, awesome! If you love a dude, great. Your choice. This thread is not going anywhere : / Ah yes, it is a touchy subject.
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